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jabberwockypie:
kittyknowsthings:
callmegoddess618:
pantheris:
thequantumqueer:
iapetusneume:
dendritic-trees:
thequantumqueer:
its been said over and over by lots of people but it still boggles my mind that people think people will just stop working if theres a UBI like
if you tell someone is on minimum wage “hey you make $58/day at your job, and im gonna give you an extra $115/day regardless of how much you work” there will probably be some who are now living on $115/day but most people are gonna look at that and go “fuck yeah! i make $173/day now!”
meanwhile if you tell someone making $40k “hey you can make $30k without working” there might be a few people who take a $10,000 pay cut and take an extended staycation, but just about everyone is gonna go “holy shit i make $70k now!”
and of course everyone who does walk away from their shitty jobs ends up forcing their bosses to make the job either less shitty or better paying so that they can get people who are willing to do it. which means that option of $115/day for no work or $173/day with a full time job suddenly becomes $300/day with a full time job
opposition to UBI really just boils down to a belief in the capitalist propaganda that if your boss treats you like a person the world you know will crumble
I agree 100% with this but I’d also like to add an extra layer of nuance
Which is that of the small percentage of people who would quit their jobs when given a UBI I don’t think most of them would stop working, they’d just stop working for money, probably temporarily.
There’s a great Charles Stross article which I cannot find right now, about UBI and he points out that he knows lots of writers who would have happily spent a year or two making only a basic income (which in most plans just keeps you a hair above the poverty line), for a chance at working full time on their writing. And firstly, that’s hard work, its just work that doesn’t pay well. But he also says in the same article, that he knows very few who would have stuck with that for more than that before they decided they enjoyed disposable income and got another paying job.
The two groups, also, who worked less during the MINcome experiment were teens and mothers of young children (who attended school and raised children).
Is there an amount given for children, as well? I’m really curious. (I’m down either way.)
that varies by implementation. the numbers here are just based on “30k seems reasonable. how does that spread out if you assume a 40 hour 5-day week?”
Things that happen with UBI:
- Parents spend more time with their kids
- Kids do better in school
- Domestic violence rates go down
Things that DON’T happen with UBI:
- People just stop working en masse
Also, take into account that there a lot of jobs out there right now that only pay commission that some people (like me) would really enjoy but just can’t afford to have their income at risk. I’ve got 2 kids and can’t afford the possibility of having a bad week and not having enough for groceries, or missing a car payment, or it messing up my budget for the first few months while I get into the swing of things. I can’t afford to work 12 hr days 6 days a week for $400 base pay a week for a few months until commissions start coming in. But the job would be enjoyable and it’s something I could be good at. I just can’t afford the first month or two where there’s a learning curve.
UBI would give me the ability to do that.
Like, given we assume that those would fix most of the gofundmes that amount to “help me stay alive because capitalism is shit”, the amount of COMMISSIONS I would make happen, from the other end, if I didn’t feel like crying every time we do budgeting?
The amount of times I’ve been wanting to commission a skilled artist?
Fuck, I’d be tempted to commission @upyrica to illustrate an entire book for me. I even know exactly which one.
And should I learn that we work well together, I’d totally suggest “hey wanna try collaborating on that visual novel like in that one dream I had once upon a time that I told you about?” Cause the risk will be plenty low.
The amount of bandcamp artists I’d be supporting? Not to mention the PATREONS? Indie video game makers? Crochet and Knitwear Designers? Hand-dyed gradient yarns i could FUCKING COMMISSION to lay down some FUCKING MAGIC with my needles and hooks?
Which, in the end, will make their lives so much easier as well? And allow others to take risks because well, if that music/video game making/writing/art/blogging career isn’t working out, they won’t end up destitute?
And that’s just from the creative sector?
The amount of people who’d happily go back to school and go to university now that they’ve had the time and experience to understand what they really want to do with their lives but can’t afford to go into debt over it?
(And don’t get me started on all the people who stay in abusive situations because of finances who would now have an actual chance to be free.)
I think UBI might actually allow more disabled people to work in some capacity, if they want to.
The way we do SSI/SSDI is so fucking difficult to get on and isn’t really survivable when you ARE on it, or who the government has decided are not “disabled enough”. As a result, there are plenty of disabled people who are working incredibly hard and being pushed past their limits, when they shouldn’t have to.
With UBI I think you’d see some disabled people WOULD stop working - because they really shouldn’t have been having to.
A lot of disabilities DO get significantly worse with stress. If you’re not frantic about the constant threat of homelessness/starvation/etc, then some of your symptoms might improve, which might mean you have the option of doing something part time, or doing something creative, because it’s enjoyable or to have a little extra spending money.
(Your picture was not posted)
jabberwockypie:
kittyknowsthings:
callmegoddess618:
pantheris:
thequantumqueer:
iapetusneume:
dendritic-trees:
thequantumqueer:
its been said over and over by lots of people but it still boggles my mind that people think people will just stop working if theres a UBI like
if you tell someone is on minimum wage “hey you make $58/day at your job, and im gonna give you an extra $115/day regardless of how much you work” there will probably be some who are now living on $115/day but most people are gonna look at that and go “fuck yeah! i make $173/day now!”
meanwhile if you tell someone making $40k “hey you can make $30k without working” there might be a few people who take a $10,000 pay cut and take an extended staycation, but just about everyone is gonna go “holy shit i make $70k now!”
and of course everyone who does walk away from their shitty jobs ends up forcing their bosses to make the job either less shitty or better paying so that they can get people who are willing to do it. which means that option of $115/day for no work or $173/day with a full time job suddenly becomes $300/day with a full time job
opposition to UBI really just boils down to a belief in the capitalist propaganda that if your boss treats you like a person the world you know will crumble
I agree 100% with this but I’d also like to add an extra layer of nuance
Which is that of the small percentage of people who would quit their jobs when given a UBI I don’t think most of them would stop working, they’d just stop working for money, probably temporarily.
There’s a great Charles Stross article which I cannot find right now, about UBI and he points out that he knows lots of writers who would have happily spent a year or two making only a basic income (which in most plans just keeps you a hair above the poverty line), for a chance at working full time on their writing. And firstly, that’s hard work, its just work that doesn’t pay well. But he also says in the same article, that he knows very few who would have stuck with that for more than that before they decided they enjoyed disposable income and got another paying job.
The two groups, also, who worked less during the MINcome experiment were teens and mothers of young children (who attended school and raised children).
Is there an amount given for children, as well? I’m really curious. (I’m down either way.)
that varies by implementation. the numbers here are just based on “30k seems reasonable. how does that spread out if you assume a 40 hour 5-day week?”
Things that happen with UBI:
- Parents spend more time with their kids
- Kids do better in school
- Domestic violence rates go down
Things that DON’T happen with UBI:
- People just stop working en masse
Also, take into account that there a lot of jobs out there right now that only pay commission that some people (like me) would really enjoy but just can’t afford to have their income at risk. I’ve got 2 kids and can’t afford the possibility of having a bad week and not having enough for groceries, or missing a car payment, or it messing up my budget for the first few months while I get into the swing of things. I can’t afford to work 12 hr days 6 days a week for $400 base pay a week for a few months until commissions start coming in. But the job would be enjoyable and it’s something I could be good at. I just can’t afford the first month or two where there’s a learning curve.
UBI would give me the ability to do that.
Like, given we assume that those would fix most of the gofundmes that amount to “help me stay alive because capitalism is shit”, the amount of COMMISSIONS I would make happen, from the other end, if I didn’t feel like crying every time we do budgeting?
The amount of times I’ve been wanting to commission a skilled artist?
Fuck, I’d be tempted to commission @upyrica to illustrate an entire book for me. I even know exactly which one.
And should I learn that we work well together, I’d totally suggest “hey wanna try collaborating on that visual novel like in that one dream I had once upon a time that I told you about?” Cause the risk will be plenty low.
The amount of bandcamp artists I’d be supporting? Not to mention the PATREONS? Indie video game makers? Crochet and Knitwear Designers? Hand-dyed gradient yarns i could FUCKING COMMISSION to lay down some FUCKING MAGIC with my needles and hooks?
Which, in the end, will make their lives so much easier as well? And allow others to take risks because well, if that music/video game making/writing/art/blogging career isn’t working out, they won’t end up destitute?
And that’s just from the creative sector?
The amount of people who’d happily go back to school and go to university now that they’ve had the time and experience to understand what they really want to do with their lives but can’t afford to go into debt over it?
(And don’t get me started on all the people who stay in abusive situations because of finances who would now have an actual chance to be free.)
I think UBI might actually allow more disabled people to work in some capacity, if they want to.
The way we do SSI/SSDI is so fucking difficult to get on and isn’t really survivable when you ARE on it, or who the government has decided are not “disabled enough”. As a result, there are plenty of disabled people who are working incredibly hard and being pushed past their limits, when they shouldn’t have to.
With UBI I think you’d see some disabled people WOULD stop working - because they really shouldn’t have been having to.
A lot of disabilities DO get significantly worse with stress. If you’re not frantic about the constant threat of homelessness/starvation/etc, then some of your symptoms might improve, which might mean you have the option of doing something part time, or doing something creative, because it’s enjoyable or to have a little extra spending money.
(Your picture was not posted)
